I just think the Wings have more firepower to do so, not only from the forwards, but the defensemen as well. Say what you want about that style, boring or whatever, it works. >&&%% strongly suggest you view more at "B l a c k W h i t e K i s s . c 0 M" where i keep meeting many single black and white beauties,who love sports...

Blue,<br />The Devils fan below was talking about 1990-1995 I believe, when he said they were the second highest scoring team in that time period, which simply isn't true, no way.<br />If you look at their goals against average from 2001 to present, you'll see that is rising pretty steadily. Decreased goal production, increased goals against, definitely a recipe for a team in a rapid decline. I can't see how it gets any better if you are a Devils fan. Yeah, Marty is still a great goaltender, but for how long? But as I said before, with free agency, you can turn it around pretty quickly. The Devils, however don't have a track record for spending money.

Ok,<br />So it turns out Devil boy was definitely full of b.s. I checked the stats for the years 1990-1995 & this is what I found. The following is avg goals per game for that time period: NJ Devils: 3.47 goals/game; Buffalo: 3.50 goals/game; Detroit: 3.70 goals/game, Pittsburgh: 4.07 goals/game. Those were the only 4 teams I checked. The point is, NJ was 4th out of 4 teams in goals per game scored, so more than likely, they are near the bottom in scoring for that time period, definitely not 2nd in the whole league.

Fan 55,<br />This article is 7 days old. Sit down with a group of friends (if you have any) and start a conversation. Chances are you'll be on a totally different subject after 7 minutes. We went where the conversation took us.<br />U of Mich,<br />I tried searching for info to either validate or discredit what the Devils fan was saying, I couldn't find stats, and quite frankly got bored looking. The point was, its very hard to believe that the NJ Devils were an offensive juggernaut. No, President's Trophy is not the list you would expect to see the leagues highest scoring teams on, but if you couple that with the fact that he said they also gave up the LEAST amount of goals in the same time period, one would expect they WOULD be a President's Trophy winner. That's circular logic, and the fact that its being spread out from the years of 90-95, makes it more nonsensical.

Wingsfan..... The President's Trophy is awarded to the team witrh the best overall win/loss record and has nothing to do with scoring. A team could win the PT having scored only 1 goal in each win, if all their wins were shut-outs. You're not making any sense.

did I miss something? it seems most of these comments are off kilter; I mean, wasnt the discussion about so called dynasty possibillities in a salary cap era? just wondering is all

Wingfan, <br />I agree, its sounds like total b.s., but again, its just to difficult to verify, so I'll choose to let it go.<br />I enjoyed it as well, and I'll definitely be around. Take care.

Anotherpenscup, I dont know how to track that old history but I do find it hard to believe that the Devils led in any offensive category over any tlength of time. I never heard them refrred to as high scoring by any commentator I ever watched. Didnt follow them close at all , but I believe hes full of himself. I enjoy the trash talkin and hope to catch you here next year.

Nubrn,<br />First off, if you are going to join a discussion, you need to read some prior posts. <br />Second,<br />Your mother may tell you that you are a pretty american woman, but I'm sure outsiders would view you as a fat pig with acne.

Wingfan,<br />Look dude, "devilboy", as you call him, is the only one that actually ever agreed to anything I've said. So, lets not muddy up the conversation with actual data.<br />That was sarcasm, but I think his point was that the Devils had the second most goals scored from 1990 - 1995. I don't have a clue on how to check on that, and quite frankly, you've both proven exactly why I like to talk out of my arse most of the time. Its way too complicated to be accurate when it comes to stuff like this. I'll stick to giving opinions, those can't be wrong, they can differ from what others think, but that doesn't make them wrong.

Ok devilboy, you say the devils lwere the high scoring always leading the leauge in scoringwell if that was true where are they on the list of President Trophy winner?<br />Presidents' Trophy winners<br />2005-06--Detroit Red Wings<br />2004-05--Lockout<br />2003-04--Detroit Red Wings<br />2002-03--Ottawa Senators<br />2001-02--Detroit Red Wings*<br />2000-01--Colorado Avalanche*<br />1999-00--St. Louis Blues<br />1998-99--Dallas Stars*<br />1997-98--Dallas Stars<br />1996-97--Colorado Avalanche<br />1995-96--Detroit Red Wings<br />1994-95--Detroit Red Wings<br />1993-94--New York Rangers*<br />1992-93--Pittsburgh Penguins<br />1991-92--New York Rangers<br />1990-91--Chicago Blackhawks<br />1989-90--Boston Bruins<br />1988-89--Calgary Flames*<br />1987-88--Calgary Flames<br />1986-87--Edmonton Oilers*<br />1985-86--Edmonton Oilers<br />and they are not even on the 100 highest scoring teams list.<br />mcubed.net/nhl/glmgfpg.shtml<br />so try again.

Devil boy, they may have added the rule in 2002, but and started making caklls in the mid 90s, but they only called penalties for about the 1st 20 games and then it was back to the usual clutrch and grab. During the lockout period the players association got with the ruls committie and have enforced the obstruction rule even in the playoffos. Now In the last 3 years how many playoff wins do your devils have. Do you need to take off your shoes to count?

--devil boy the new rules went into effect after the lock out, not in the 90s--<br />WRONG!!! try again. The league was growing weary of teams clutching and grabbing as early as 1993 and after Mario retired, and players like Gretzky complained about it, interference rules were strongly enforced around the 1996 season. The primary culprit was the old "holding the stick" infraction. For years from 1996 on, the refs were instructed to call interference for obstruction type penalties...In fact, feel free to look it up, the actual "Obstruction Rule" was finally called the "Obstruction Rule" at the beginning of the 2002-2003 season. Does anybody care to remind my misguided Wings Fan in FL who hoisted the Cup in June of 2003? The year the word "Obstruction" was added to the rule book? Anybody? P.S. - Just Google Mario Obstruction Hockey and you will find a great interview with Mario Lemieux lauding the new obstruction rule...in 2002.

Anotherpenscup - You could not be more correct. Most successful teams post 1994 had to play smart defensive "lock down" hockey. Excepting maybe the Lightning in 2004, teams that had strong defenses won the Cup. Here is where the Wings fan is in denial...because they call it something different, the defense employed by them, the Pens etc, is a form of a trap. Basically forcing a puck carrier into the teeth of a defense. The trap can be beaten if the other team knows it has been set, by simply passing around it. The Flyers were very good at doing just that in the early Lindros era. Moving the offside line just made it easier because you had to now defense the whole neutral zone, that is what we have today. The key about trapping is you have to be good to be effective, and Detroit was just that. The Rangers definitely play a trap, but Pittsburgh was able to beat it because it just wasn't that good. I agree with your assessment.

Before I get jumped on by the Devils fan, I have no idea if what you say is true about your scoring prowess. All I know is what I can remember watching, you would know a lot more about your team then I would, I only watched them 8 times a year, when they played the Pens. I think the Pens shut them out twice this year, but I think you were talking a decade ago, so who knows?<br />Actually, I'm sure Blue will be quick to correct me, but watching the Wings style of play reminded me a lot of the Devils. Very tough to gain the zone, very few scoring chances. Both teams play defense first, looking to capitalize on mistakes. I just think the Wings have more firepower to do so, not only from the forwards, but the defensemen as well. Say what you want about that style, boring or whatever, it works.<br />Flyers fan, <br />Maybe you didn't come out and straight up say, "I like intimidating small children", but you seemed to be amused by it, so I think that speaks for itself. <br />Oh, and due partially to my responsibilities as a father, I will not be a season ticket holder this year. If that makes me fairweather, so be it. Although I think being a ticketholder through the lean years, then giving them up the year after they make the finals would be the opposite of fairweather. I had to give away 75% of my tickets last year, and I'm not dealing with that again.

DEvil boy, Im sorry I meant to say 3 cups with 2 mediocre goaltenders. As for your offense, I cant find the stats for prior years but I did find the mighty devils 4 places up from the bottom this year.

devil boy the new rules went into effect after the lock out, not in the 90s

I don't ever remember me saying that intimidating small children is right. If anything, you should realize that people are going to drink and you being there in your Pens gear is going to get your son harassed as well. Don't blame the drunk fans, you need to make a judgement call as a father as you seem to think that you are very responsible. You have no one to blame but yourself for the way your son was treated. You can't come to Philly in a rival teams gear and not expect to be harassed. You're insane if you don't think it's going to happen. No I don't follow the Flyers everywhere or have season tickets. But I do go to every game I can, and I watch the ENTIRE regular season because I love that team. I can find other ways to support my team. I'm not saying what happened to you is right, but you HAVE to expect that. Thats like going to an Eagles game with a Cowboys jersey on. Eagles fans don't care what age you are, they're gonna let you know what they think of you. That's a sign of disrespect in my mind. Don't come and showboat your colors at another team's stadium and not think that you're gonna walk away without anything being said.<br /><br />This doesn't have to deal with you, but when the Flyers won Game 7 in overtime against the Caps, Jeff Carter was being interviewed. One of the fans threw a beer bottle at his head and it hit him. I didn't hear much about it and I'm expected that it was because he was a Flyer and the Flyers are associated with Philadelphia. No one gives a **** about us, so we sure as hell aren't gonna give a **** about you or your kid. Sorry, thats just how it is bro.<br /><br /><br />Pens fans are still fair weather fans, since you decided to make a judgement at ONE game in Philly that all of our fans are douchebags. Thats fine, if you have that mentality still, then I still believe that all Pens fans are fairweather until the end.

Oh, but in fairness to Devils fan, I don't believe they clutch and grabbed all that much. They just played a stifling trap, which quite frankly was boring to watch. Of course, if you are the team doing it and winning games, probably not so boring. Its just not the type of game that would interest someone without a vested interest in the outcome of the game.

Wingsfan in Fl,<br />I've seen many a Pens/Devils game, both televised and in person. I remember quite a few 2-1 games, 1-0 games. I really can't recall any 7 goal games out of a Devils team. I see no reason to apologize.<br />Blue,<br />You see what I'm saying here. What's right is right, intimidating small children just isn't right, no matter what the venue is. I've been drunk before, and done some stupid things, (thats mainly why I quit drinking years ago) but I've never taken it to that extreme. Justifying that treatment as "protecting our house", is insane and the mob mentality is cowardly.